stop me now

[mamajoan]

I will not engage in the flamewar any further. I will not engage in the flamewar any further. I will not...ah, fuck it.

You know, if I were one of those people who simply don't want to have kids, I would be pretty fucking pissed at the few bad apples in this flamewar, the "I don't want kids and you do, therefore you are a brainless moron worthy of my contempt" types. They give ALL you childfree people a bad name. And it's too bad really, because I personally have nothing but respect for those who have the guts to stand up to society and say, "I don't want kids and I'm not gonna have them, period." But when I get my ass flamed to hell and back like I am in this thread, it sure doesn't make me feel like having much sympathy for ANYONE without kids, not even all you perfectly reasonable types.

I mean seriously -- I understand the animosity. I really do. Our society is pretty kid-focused (even though, on the flip side, it also makes it really HARD for those of us with kids to get along, financially speaking, especially if we don't conform to the societal norm of dad earning a living and mom staying home with the kids) and a lot of people have a really hard time wrapping their heads around the concept of someone who doesn't want kids. As a result, a lot of people who don't want kids take a lot of crap for it. And yes, many societal institutions are set up so as to make things easier for people with kids -- child discounts at all kinds of business establishments, tax credits/deductions, workplace perks, and so forth. So I understand the sour grapes. But here's the thing -- that doesn't make ME your enemy and that doesn't make it right to flame ME for it. You want to be pissed off at society, go right ahead. But I'm no more your enemy than any particular heterosexual person is the enemy of all gays, or than any particular white person is the enemy of all people of color. You can't beat up a random straight white man on the street and claim that you did it on behalf of black lesbians everywhere; similarly, you can't flame a random pregnant chick on livejournal and claim the moral high ground on behalf of childless people everywhere. That's bullshit and the rest of you childless people shouldn't stand for it.

Not that it's my business to tell you what to do or think, of course! Heaven forfend. Goodness knows that just because a parking space is marked handicapped and you aren't handicapped, doesn't mean you don't have the moral right to park there! *roll eyes*

Comments

[destina.livejournal.com]

That's bullshit and the rest of you childless people shouldn't stand for it.

Stupid people are stupid people all the time, regardless of which sandbox they choose to piss in on any particular day. Too many jerks to argue with, not enough time. *g*

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Heh. I didn't actually mean to imply that you should immediately hie yourself over there and take them to task. ;) Commenting here to say that you don't approve of the stupidity counts as not standing for it. :)

[retch.livejournal.com]

sadly I weighed in, but only to snark so I guess it is ok... :) Will just delete the response and ignore the thread if I get one, heh.

[xochiquetzl]

Alas, so did I, but I'm done. If I have to hide my keyboard. ;)

[cheryln.livejournal.com]

I have to be a little amused by some of the posters' self-righteousness in assuming that you got yourself knocked up because you don't know how to use birth control.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Unfortunately, I suspect they'd have even MORE contempt for me if they knew the truth.

[edie22.livejournal.com]

those people are morons. I don't like people that assume to speak for an entire group of people they don't know, especially when its me, and they're wrong.

[morgan-dhu.livejournal.com]

I've always considered the particular segment of the militantly childfree that, for instance, calls children sprogs and crotch droppings, to be beyond the pale.

You strove valiantly, but what you were arguing with wasn't just animosity and feelings of persecution born of society's lack of acceptance for being childfree, it was viciously rabid and rather stupid bigotry.

Your only fault, if fault it be, was in debating with unarmed opponents. ;-)

[lunaris1013.livejournal.com]

And right there is the reason why I don't self-identify as "childfree" even though I am by anyone's standard.

Then again, it's why I don't apply labels to myself very often at all - it's always the thoughtless loudmouths that make any group or movement look like fools to the general populace.

[sihaya09.livejournal.com]

Oh, it looks like you were whined about to some militant childfree morons who came to bring the wank.

There's a difference between people who realize they don't want children and people who think children are evil. Those people fit in with the typical fundamentalist mold-- they can't see beyond their own bigotry and hatred.

God forbid they admit some people can be wonderful parents and not all children are illegitimate, uncared for, and should have been aborted. Fucking fucktarts.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I know, and it just boggles my mind because, hello, where would the human race be if none of us ever had kids? OK, some of these people would probably say they'd *prefer* for the whole species to just die out. But seriously, wtf??

[sihaya09.livejournal.com]

I know. The stupid makes my brain hurt.

Like I said earlier, lots and lots of mommy/daddy issues.

[chaosvizier.livejournal.com]

It all comes down to a few simple facts:

A) there's nothing wrong with having children. I think I'm a product of good parents, so I guess that went well overall.
B) there's nothing wrong with not having children.
C) people who do one are not the enemy of the other.

Those are self-evident. However, above all of that...

D) Handicapped people who park in my non-handicapped space are gonna get a beating. I mean, really, who do they think they are? ;-)

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

LOL, your idea of "self-evident" assumes a basic level of reasoning skills/rationality which unfortunately is just not present in this discussion.

I can't really argue with point D, however. I honestly have no idea who they think they are. ;)

wow...

[queenalia.livejournal.com]

...just when i've convinced myself that my fears about my mothering skills/status being judged by the world are paranoid delusions, something like this rolls by...

man...

fuck.

etc.

Re: wow...

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, unfortunately this is not the first time I've run into this crap. But it hasn't gotten any easier to handle.

[as2.livejournal.com]

" . . . if I were one of those people who simply don't want to have kids, I would be pretty fucking pissed at the few bad apples in this flamewar, the "I don't want kids and you do, therefore you are a brainless moron worthy of my contempt" types. They give ALL you childfree people a bad name."

I am one of those people (who simply doesn't want to have kids) and people like this do piss me off. You're right. They do give us a bad name.

One of the reasons I like to peruse your LJ is that you're able to see things from a variety of angles. You know things are not black or white. I doubt that's the case with the jackass who parks in GD spots for expectant mothers.

[xochiquetzl]

You know, one of the people who left a single hateful comment is someone I had a nice conversation about "I, Claudius" with on someone else's LJ. I nearly friended her.

I'm glad I didn't, because unfriending is socially awkward, and I prefer to just not friend in the first place. :P

She wasn't the worst of the worst, mind you, but...

The other people there? Insane, and, as Morgan said, beyond the pale.

[xochiquetzl]

LOL! It was a case of mistaken identity. I thought she was someone with a very similar username.

Kind of relieved, actually. And a bit embarrassed. ;) I'm pretty sure we had flisters in common at one point, but no more, and she's not "I, Claudius" woman.

[white-and-nrdy.livejournal.com]

I'm about ready to go over there and say:



People who are militantly *anything* are a pain in the ass. Say it with me: "There is no one right way to live." I choose to not breed. I believe that's the right thing for me to do. But I'd never dream of telling you that *you* shouldn't breed. You're not me. Your choices are different from mine. And they *should* be, because what's right for me isn't necessarily right for you. And that goes for anything, from procreation to riding motorcycles.

Ironically, people like this are the type that I *would* say shouldn't breed. "YOU, out of the gene pool!!!" >:)

[mishaslair.livejournal.com]

That is some messed up shit.

[orbitalmechanic.livejournal.com]

Here's what I don't get: really, you can't hate kids without having been one. So what's the deal--everyone stops procreating right after you're born? Or after you turn eighteen? Or get a livejournal? I mean, really, what is that? At least if you're racist or sexist or homophobic you can make up some shit about how much cooler you are than those people. Hell, even the people who natter on and on about how poor people shouldn't have children are generally not poor themselves. Do you think maybe they imagine themselves leaping full-grown from Zeus's forehead?

It just puzzles me.

[drglam]

They piss me off, and you know how many children I have...

Jeez. I couldn't read the whole thing.

[plaidder.livejournal.com]

What I would say, though, is that what you've got a hold of there is not a child-free person defending the rights of the child-free, but an asshole defending the right to be an asshole.

Yeesh, I say.

The Plaid Adder

[valentinesecret.livejournal.com]

my little psychoanalysis for the day

[watercolorblue.livejournal.com]

These people are getting emotionally het up and blindly throwing fireballs at you, that's what I think. They feel somehow put-upon and neglected by the world, and can't tolerate compassion directed at someone else.

If pregnant women and moms with toddlers are given good parking spaces, it's an act of compassion on the part of the store that owns the lot. People who rail against acts of compassion are usually bitter because they feel the same compassion hasn't been extended to them.

That said, they're still wankers...it's good to stand up to them, unfortunately I don't think there'll be much luck in changing their skewed minds. I like to look at it as a happy thing that stores even bother with this courtesy. They were complete psycho idiots for their flames, but in the end, you still kinda win, because the parking spaces exist. So, neener to them! Hopefully it's a sign of progress towards a more compassionate society, or something. Yay for stores that give a shit! :-D

Re: my little psychoanalysis for the day

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. I definitely think your point about compassion is true. And it's evident in some of the comments, where they're like, "well why can't a man use that parking space?" or "well what about those women who can't get pregnant?" Um, missing the point much?

I also love how in one breath they call me an idiot who can't keep her legs shut (oh right -- like THEY aren't having any sex at all, suuuure) and then in the next breath they turn around and tell me I don't deserve consideration for my pregnancy because I "chose" it. Well, which is it, people? Am I a brainless slut who got pregnant out of sheer stupidity, or did I make a conscious, rational, well-informed choice? Make up your minds!

Heh. Anyway, by now I'm just amused at it. Yesterday I had all kinds of outrage and anger. Today, just eye-rolling amusement. The illogic! The passionate repetition of the same old boring themes! The juvenile insults! It's all just so darn cute! ;)

[psu-jedi.livejournal.com]

I just went to the link and read the response to your post...and immediately closed the window because I don't need any more assholes like that in my life!(There are enough on the DC beltway I have to contend with everyday! ;-)

And, I probably shouldn't mention to her that my chiropractor signed off for me to get a temp handicap tag because the sciatic pain is so bad I can barely walk. But I guess that's because I didn't take care of myself when pregnant! ;-) (Guess what, bitch! You can't control how the baby decides to turn and position itself, and if it happens to be against a nerve, you're SOL! But then again, you probably don't care about that, do you, fuckwit?)

Whoops. Sorry. Couldn't help myself! ;-)

Sorry you got pounded by these asshats. Thanks for taking one for the team.