on fanfic writers' insecurities

[mamajoan]

I can't even remember where I saw this, so I feel a little lame for that, but it was *somewhere* on lj fairly recently. A fanfic author was talking about how you feel when you go to the rec page of someone you respect, and you see people rec'd whose work you think is inferior to yours. And, correspondingly, how you feel when you read lots of rec pages and don't find yourself anywhere.

I was kind of relieved, I guess, to see someone else talking about this, although she mostly was talking about how embarrassed she is to feel that way (with which I totally empathize). I know I can never be a BNF because I don't do all the bullshit that makes people like you, like prettifying my website and joining a zillion web-cliques and writing on discussion lists (although sometimes I wish I did have discussion lists for, like, Buffy and Smallville -- but I am on a buncha lists and it's already waaaay too much email, and I know I'd kill my poor wrists posting lengthy episode analyses). I often miss IRC and the days the whole XCG crowd used to spend hours IRCing merrily together, but if BNFs and their cronies are hangin' on IRC these days, I don't know where.

Anyway, uh, my point was that since I'll never be a BNF, I'll never be splattered all over a zillion people's rec pages, and every now and then I indulge in a bit of moping about that. 'Cause what is a fanfic writer if not a huge heapin' mass of insecurity (which really is what thamiris seemed to be saying in her posts that caused the whole big controversy that I'm trying really hard to stay away from)? I mean, we want, we need, we live for the adulation and affirmation of our peers. Feedback emails and lots of hits on our websites and comments in our ljs are great, but what could be better than seeing oneself on a rec page -- especially one belonging to someone whom one respects and who is respected by lots of other fen -- especially when the rec'er writes a long explanation of why one's story rocks?

And there's definitely an element of "But what about ME?" when I look at someone's rec page and they're talking about how great so-and-so's story is, especially if it's a story in a fandom that I write. It doesn't even matter whether I think the rec'ed story is good or not -- that's really irrelevant to the whole insecurity thing. Then I sit there fretting because I'm fairly sure my story is worthy of rec'ing, but to email someone and say "hey, read my story and see whether you wanna rec it" would be the height of tacky. Not to mention unforgivably needy. But those feelings are there anyway, and it's almost as if they're a dirty little secret and acknowledging them feels taboo. Which is why I was so glad to see whoever it was (damn, I wish I could remember!) talking about it in her lj.

Of course, in order to be rec'ed, you have to actually, like, write something. I realized too that I haven't posted my last BTVS story anywhere, except on my website and one small list, which might explain why I haven't gotten any feedback on it (or maybe it's just that it sucks, a possibility I'm quite willing to explore). But it's kind of sad when the main reason I want to finish a particular story is not that I want to write that particular story, but that I want others to *read* that story and rec it. It all goes back to what I was saying in Tham's journal, that I write as a form of exhibitionism. Not always. There are some stories I write just for me, and if other people like them too then that's cool. But with fanfic, it's much more often the exhibitionist thing.

I *am* glad that people do rec pages, though, and that there are lists like BetterBuffy and such. For one, it's a place I know I can go to find quality fic (sure, I won't always agree with the rec'er, but the odds are better), and for another, I guess, it's something to strive for. Plus I think it exemplifies the kind of democracy that I've always loved about the Internet: that everyone is entitled to write their stuff, even if it's crap; everyone is entitled to say which stuff they like and to post those opinions on their websites; and then people can decide for themselves whose opinion they respect. I like that, because it encourages higher quality, in a completely equitable way.

Comments

If it makes you feel better

[bearblue.livejournal.com]

I do understand.

I've often posted bits without so much as a whimper of: I got it! at least. It's very disconcerting.

And I think you're right, given that we can't get fists full of dollars for fan fiction writing, the currency is feedback. And if there is none, it feels weird. Or if, like you said, you go to a rec page (or award page) and you're looking at fiction, which is not as good (or is very good - depending) it can make you feel weird.

oh well. I realize you may consider me a "recognized" author, but...fans are fickle.

I just wanted to respond and let you know you weren't the only one.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I think the person who writes solely for feedback is in for a big disappointment.

Don't get me wrong, I *lurve* feedback, and I get decent amounts of it. But I think I'd continue to write (have continued to write) on the occasions when it slows to a trickle and I wonder why I bother anymore.

It's because I want to tell the stories I have in my head, regardless of what most people think of them.

I don't get recced frequently in my main fandom. I don't know why that is. I know I'm good - better than a lot of others who *do* get recced, imo. But tastes differ, or whatever. Maybe my confidence turns people off. Maybe everyone thinks, "everyone must rec that, I'm not going to bother" and so nobody does. Who knows? I'm starting to learn that it's something I'm just going to have to deal with.

And start reccing myself. That's what I did in my diary earlier this week - posted a list of my fics I think people should read, if they're going to bother to read anything by me.

I recommend everyone do the same.

yeah, it feels tacky, but at least you can say, look, here's my best work. Even if no one else is going to ...

~victoria

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean to say that I "write solely for feedback." If that were the case, I'd sit around thinking, "Hmm, what kind of stories do people want to read?" And try to invent a pairing/plot/style that matched what's popular at the moment. That's definitely not how I do things. It's more that, once I've gotten something started, the thought of the high I'll get from positive feedback is what keeps me working on it -- more so than just the desire to finish it. Especially since, so often, I get a great opening and then either lose interest or can't figure out where to take the story.

Rec myself? *blushes, runs to hide under desk* Nah, not likely. IMO, posting it on my website constitutes rec'ing it, anyway. So people who want to know which of my stories to read should just go look at my fanfic page. <g>

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean to say that I "write solely for feedback." If that were the case, I'd sit around thinking, "Hmm, what kind of stories do people want to read?" And try to invent a pairing/plot/style that matched what's popular at the moment. That's definitely not how I do things. It's more that, once I've gotten something started, the thought of the high I'll get from positive feedback is what keeps me working on it

Okay, my mistake.

I know there *are* people out there who write like that.

Especially since, so often, I get a great opening and then either lose interest or can't figure out where to take the story.

That's what happens to me with original fiction, and why I think fanfic has been so good for me. I've proved that I *can* finish something, and not lose interest halfway in, or not know how to write the middle or whatever.

posting it on my website constitutes rec'ing it, anyway. So people who want to know which of my stories to read should just go look at my fanfic page.

See, for me, I've written so much stuff, that some weeding is necessary. Even though everything I've finished is up on my site, there are obviously some fics that are better than others...

Um, heh, that was me.....

[wickdzoot.livejournal.com]

I was the person whinging about those evil insecurities and how embarrassing it is to have to own them. ::g::

But I do love the way you've opened that up here. It's like our insecurities are a dirty little secret so often, and yet they're like porcupine spines, all prickly and visible anyway.

Re: Um, heh, that was me.....

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

yay, and whew -- thanks for putting me out of my "why can't I remember who it was" misery. :)

It's like our insecurities are a dirty little secret so often, and yet they're like porcupine spines, all prickly and visible anyway.

Yeah, exactly. And we're all, I think, uncomfortable with exposing them. I mean, almost every fanfic writer at some point probably says on a list, "I posted a story three days ago and haven't gotten feedback. Did anyone read it?" In varying degrees of passive-aggressive or whiny, of course. ;) And most of us will tease or deride the person for saying it -- whether to her face or behind her back or just inside our heads -- even though most of us will probably be guilty of the same thing at some point. I guess that to witness others displaying their insecurities like that makes us realize how close to the surface our own insecurities are. You read a "wah, didn't anyone like my story??" post and cringe because you know you could have written it.

It also seems like there are some ways of expressing our insecurities that are acceptable and some that aren't. "I wrote this great fic and no one read/liked/feedbacked it!" is accepted (if made fun of), but "This person should put my story on her rec page!" is beyond the pale. Your lj entry made me think that maybe a lot of people feel that way too, but feel even MORE guilty about admitting to it than they do about the simple "no one read my story" version. So it was a little comforting like that. Misery loves company? :)

Re: Um, heh, that was me.....

[wickdzoot.livejournal.com]

You know, I think you've hit on something there. It hits our own insecurity buttons and instead of wanting to own up to that, we point a finger.

But talk about it? Heck, we'd rather pretend to be all brave and uninterested in getting strokes, while meanwhile the whinging self inside of us leaks out in bitchery, I swear. ::g::

Heh. Consider this a formal announcement. Hi, I'm zoot, and I'm frequently insecure as hell.

zoot runs away

[tiggrrl.livejournal.com]

This is really interesting. I don't do any fiction writing, but I have similar feelings about my art. I had a show up for a month last year in a cafe, and every time I went in to check on things I heard great comments, but I want people to like my art well enough to buy it, for me that's the validation.

I'm fairly insecure about my art anyway, but sometimes I see artists whose stuff I think is not as good as mine, and yet they sell a ton of it, at ridiculous prices. Meanwhile I'm charging $35 for an original piece and getting lots of positive feedback but no buyers. And then there's this cafe I go to all the time, and the owner keeps talking about having me do a show, but she never actually schedules me...

I guess in any creative endeavor there are those same, "what about me?!" feelings that crop up. A creative work is a little piece of yourself that you put out there in the public eye, and if they don't like it (or don't let you know they like it) then you end up feeling hurt. I think that's even more the case when it's something you've felt compelled to create, I know sometimes I'm like, "No wait, that was inspired don't you get it?"

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

You know, on this big beautiful planet, we all wander around inside little bubbles of our own insecurities, and every now and then a conversation like this comes along and makes us realize that everyone else around us is inside a similar bubble. I dunno, right now that just strikes me as really amusing, in a sad poignant way. It's like we have such trouble connecting to each other, because we always assume that everyone we meet is more self-confident than we are.

Heck, you were my role model of self-confidence and general overall cool for ages! Well, I still think you're super-cool. :)

I'm shameless!

[xochiquetzl]

Dear Kevin,

I know exactly how you feel. At the same time, I am a complete shameless hussy. I mean, I try to be all campy and self-parody about it, but yes, I have emailed someone with a rec page and said, "You REALIZE you brought this on yourself by saying we could suggest our own stories to be recced, don't you? My latest. [url]" I promote a zine I'm in on my webpage with the statement, "It's a zine! A zine with me! You want it! You crave it! You must have it!" I recently sent someone in an IRC chat one of my recent attempts at photomanips and told her, "I AM A BUDDING PHOTOMANIP ARTIST VALIDATE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!" followed by the action "/me LOLs at self."

I haven't nominated myself for this year's Stargate fanfic awards yet, but give me time. I was going to wait until closer to the deadline rather than spam the categories. I want to win, not embarrass myself completely in public, and I want to make sure that I nominate my best without making it look like I went out there and nominated everything I ever wrote. ;) Okay, maybe I'm not a complete shameless hussy. Just a shameless self-promoter.

Of course, I'm a Leo, which probably explains everything.

I guess this makes me Ryan today. ;)

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

Your post makes me feel better about being an insecure fanfic writer. I don't think I've ever been re'd, and I don't belong to any web cliques, and my stories attract little to no feedback. Sometimes I wonder why I even continue to write, except that it's an obsession.

Feeding the Big Ball Of Need

[(Anonymous)]

This thing won't let me tell you my name unless I'm a Livejournal user, but surely after all this time you know a Plaidder when you see one...

Everybody wants feedback--about all kinds of things. I noticed over the years that my desire to see people talking about me in cyberspace increased when I was sort of waiting for some kind of approval from the cosmos--when I was on the job market, when I was first working this job and nobody was giving me any feedback, when I had a book of some kind under consideration, or when for whatever reason I felt lonely and underappreciated in general. The thing about feedback from the Web is that it can happen out of nowhere; it makes you feel like the universe is noticing you, and gives you in some weakened form the sense that someone out there cares and is taking an interest. So it's not just about the writing, really, at least not for me.

I notice, for instance, that now that I'm waiting on the Etiquette Guide I spend more time Googling myself and looking for links to the site--probably partly to reassure myself that it's a good book and someone will want it, but partly because I'm trying to provide for myself the positive feedback that the industry has, so far, withheld.

The thing is that no matter how much attention you get it's never enough. At least for me, I know that my need for positive reinforcement is ravenous and potentially all-consuming. And with the original fiction, it's worse! Much, much much much worse! Yee ha! So I do what I can to control it, just so it doesn't eat me alive; but the need never really goes away, and it's universal.

OK, I'm done stalling, now I have to go mail off the chapters for the critique group at Wiscon, where I'm sure I'll get loads of feedback, most of it along the lines of, "Dude, you're asking us to read an interior chapter from the third book in a series. What were you thinking?"

C ya,

The Plaid Adder