musing #1

[mamajoan]

At last I am motivated to post about an actual topic! Be astonished. ;)

A couple of years ago when I lived with xochiquetzl and d_and_cats, we had issues of messiness in our shared apartment. This happened because, basically, we were all messy types and none of us had the energy or motivation or desire to clean up. Eventually, after much wrangling, we decided to hire someone to clean the place. He did a fantastic job and thereafter we had him come in regularly (every two weeks? I forget). I moved out not long after that, but I know that xochi and d. continued to have this guy come in regularly.

At the time, I was deeply uncomfortable with the notion of hiring someone to clean my (our) living space. I spent a lot of time pondering why this was. Certainly some of it was probably related to the fact that the guy we hired was black and we were all white, but that was, I think, just a small factor.

The bigger factor was my personal guilt/baggage due to my upbringing. My mom worked very hard to instill in me the notion that a person is responsible for her own stuff. That means that when you make a mistake, you fix it; when you make a mess, you clean it up. To sit around while someone else cleans up a mess you made is the height of laziness and irresponsibility.

The point that xochiquetzl made, however, was* that this is this person's job, and he gets paid for it; and you have your own job, where you make money, which you can then choose to give him in exchange for this service that he performs, and what's wrong with that? If we hate and are bad at cleaning, and he enjoys it (or at least doesn't hate it) and is good at it, and we can afford his fee, why should we do it ourselves? After all, that's the foundation of capitalism -- each person does the job that s/he is suited for and gets paid for it, and can then use that money to compensate others for doing the jobs that THEY are suited for.

* Disclaimer: this is the summary of how I integrated xochiquetzl's comments into my musings on the topic, and may not be a completely accurate summary of what she actually said.

So I turned this all around and around in my head. Basically it seems that I was thinking of hiring a cleaning person as a particularly extravagant luxury, whereas xochi was looking it as a utility, similar to cable TV or Internet access -- something you could live without, but it makes your life better, and if you can afford it, why not have it? (See disclaimer above.) So in part, my feelings on the subject were affected by my own classism, or anti-classism, or elitism, or whatever you'd call it -- my bias against rich people, especially frivolous rich people. Only someone with too much money and ego would hire others to clean their living space, went my subconscious reasoning.

And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this was silly. So my opinion started to change. It's largely about attitude, I now feel. If your attitude toward the person cleaning your house is one of respect -- that he is doing you a service, for which you will pay him, and which makes him valuable -- rather than one of condescension or judgment or whatever, then it's okay. If you really can afford it (you work it into your budget however you see fit, maybe by cutting down on movies or other "luxury" expenses), and if you really dislike cleaning, and you can handle the idea of a stranger handling your possessions (a whole nother issue!), then it's okay. I don't have a problem with it any more, or at least, not as much as I did back then.

It makes me realize, too, how classist and clueless and elitist I must have seemed to the financial aid woman at Oberlin, one year when I went in to her office to complain that I couldn't find a job to satisfy my work-study requirement. She tried to convince me that I should be satisfied with jobs in food services (in campus dining halls) rather than keep looking for a job that would utilize my computer/administrative skills. I was adamantly against that, and I claimed -- and really believed -- that I didn't look down on service jobs of that sort, I just thought a person should work the job s/he was suited for. As I look back on it now, though, it was more complicated than that, and there *was* some elitism going on in my subconscious. I can't quite put into words how it relates to the above, but it does.

But I digress. It all really boils down to two things:

1. I don't have the same strong emotional/moral objection to hiring a housecleaner that I used to have. I would have willingly paid Cyndi to clean my place yesterday (although she did it for free as her baby gift to me) and, if necessary, I'll pay someone else to clean my place again after the baby comes if I decide that I can afford it and that I really can't handle doing it on my own.

2. I am capable of changing my mind/opinion about stuff. I'm kinda proud of myself for this. I think too many people, especially Americans, nowadays have trouble changing their strong, deeply-held opinions, because to do so is to admit that you were wrong, and that's scary for us. But I *was* wrong and I feel better for having realized it. And I apologize to xochi and d for all the crap I gave them about it.

Whew, that was refreshing. I haven't made a post about actual deep stuff (as opposed to "what I did yesterday") in a long time. It feels nice.

Comments

[calligrafiti.livejournal.com]

Interesting topic. My former roommate and I used to debate the idea of a cleaning person. (We never had the money for the debate to become vital, but realities never stopped us from discussing things.) I think some of our respective attitudes came from our upbrinings. My mom used to have a cleaning person in ever other week. My folks were pretty firmly in the middle of middle class, but both mom and dad had outside jobs. My folks decided that a biweekly cleaning person was more important than cable and there it was -- no big. (I could probably get my apartment cleaned once a month now if I wanted to make the same choice.)

My roommate had been raised by serious do it yourselfers -- they raised much of their own food, did almost all of their home construction, etc. (My dad, having grown up on a farm and having helped his father build their house, was more than happy to pay other people to do such things, except for a nice vegetable garden which was mostly for mom.) I believe they would have no sooner paid someone else to clean their house then they would have skied naked down Mt. Hood in February.

I saw hiring out the housework as akin to hiring someone to put tomato sauce, mushrooms, and cheese on round bread and bring it to my house. Sure, I could make my own, but some days you just don't want to bother. My roommate saw it as an admission that the homeowner was utterly incapable of getting her own shit together.

I believe that we both still think the other is wrong. Heh. I hadn't thought of this debate in ages.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

My roommate saw it as an admission that the homeowner was utterly incapable of getting her own shit together.

Yeah, this is basically what I was saying with the whole bit about responsibility and cleaning up one's own mess. But what I've come to see is that you can think of paying someone else to do it as "getting your own shit together." After all, you're still doing (some other) work to earn the money to pay the cleaner, so it's not *really* like you're shirking or being lazy.

[azurelunatic]

Especially if you have to take time that you should be working in order to clean, and you are making significantly more per time unit with your actual job than the person you are paying to clean.

This does not excuse, say, leaving crusted dishes in the non-sink-area to grow mold.

Re:

[calligrafiti.livejournal.com]

After all, you're still doing (some other) work to earn the money to pay the cleaner, so it's not *really* like you're shirking or being lazy.

Sure. I pay people to do all kinds of things for me. The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker -- my shit is quite together, and yet I don't feel the need to pluck my own chickens, grind my grain, or fight the bees for my candlewax. If I had the funds to pay for both cable and a cleaning person, I'd feel especially together -- essentially I'd be making enough to support myself and one, part-time employee. That's pretty durned together.

[victoriacatlady.livejournal.com]

My roommate saw it as an admission that the homeowner was utterly incapable of getting her own shit together.

Looking at it like this, cleaning house could be a source of immense satisfaction and well-earned pride for her -- a proof that she really does have her shit together. And good for her.

Alas, for me cleaning is both a source of emotional angst and something that I am physically only barely able to do, and that in small quantities. So for me, although I don't have much money, I feel spending a little of what I do have is immensely worth it. Especially since the woman I hire also has very little money and feels grateful for what I am able to pay her. (And I feel grateful to her for doing the work that, if not entirely getting my shit together, at least prevents it from overwhelming me.) It seems to be a win-win situation all around.

Re:

[calligrafiti.livejournal.com]

for me cleaning is both a source of emotional angst and something that I am physically only barely able to do,

My mom is currently in a similar boat. While neither she nor my dad have jobs outside the home anymore, they are both getting old and arthritic. Mom's idea of how clean a house should be runs up against her physical abilities to clean it -- and dad's abilities in that area (he's remarkable reasonable about doing housework for a man born in the 1930s). So they've gone back to having a cleaning person every other week or so. Someone gets a check, mom gets a house she can live in, and neither mom nor dad's joints ache more than necessary. Everybody's happy.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Conversely, my grandmother is arthritic on top of her dementia (Alzheimer's) and almost the only thing she does any more is clean. Not really effective cleaning, but she'll wipe table-tops off obsessively, fold towels and underwear a million times, wash dishes (poorly) and dry them and put them away, etc. She was always a neat-freak, even when she had her faculties, and it's kind of sad to see it now, because she goes through the motions but doesn't usually actually make any improvement.

Before she started losing her mind we always used to try to get her to stop cleaning and spend time with us, saying, "don't worry about [the dishes/the floor/the towels], we'll get them later." But we don't try to stop her now, because the weird obsessive cleaning seems to make her happy, and she can't hold a conversation anyway so why not let her tidy up.

Heh, sorry to get all depressing and stuff. ;( I guess my point was, at least your mom is still in enough control of her mental faculties that she realizes her arthritis is a prohibitive factor.

[batdina.livejournal.com]

When I was a kid, my father taught me that money doesn't buy happiness, it buys service. As an asthmatic, one of the services I need is someone else to clean my house for me since I quite literally am unable to do it myself without causing myself great harm.

Between the two, I think I came to some accommodation to the idea of someone else doing what my grandmother told me was my job. The key for me has been respecting those who do the job for me, knowing their names, asking after their children, and in one spectacular case, vouching for someone to get them out of jail after a protest!

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

money doesn't buy happiness, it buys service.

Weeeellll, yes, but sometimes that service can increase your quality of life, so as to bring you happiness. I mean, you pay for electricity to power the lights in your home, and that's not "money buying happiness," it's money buying a convenience that makes you happy. A subtle difference, I guess, but it matters.

the idea of someone else doing what my grandmother told me was my job.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about (although with my mother, not my grandmother). I guess my point is to think of it as "it's my job to get the house clean," which isn't the same as "it's my job to clean the house." So paying someone else to clean it is equally acceptable. It still puts a responsibility on me -- to find the person, hire him/her, earn the money to pay him/her -- but it's a responsibility I can fulfill.

And definitely yes about respecting the person who does the job! That's the key in what I was saying about snooty rich people. In my worldview, snooty rich people don't bother knowing the names of their cleaning staff, or thinking of said staff as people. As long as I continue to think of the cleaning person as a person and give him/her my respect, I'm different from a snooty rich person. :)

[xochiquetzl]

One of the cool things about hiring Tim, which I forgot to mention, was that Tim wasn't working for some cleaning company that paid him some small sum per hour and then pocketed the difference. Tim and his wife owned that cleaning business, so everything he made was his. His wife was a CPA and had her own accounting business on the side. So you could also look at it as supporting a small 100% black-owned business.

(Apparently he used to work for one of those places and commented to his wife that he felt exploited, but was intimidated by the withholdings and other financial scarinesses that come with a small business... at which point she pointed out that she was a CPA.)

But I *was* wrong and I feel better for having realized it. And I apologize to xochi and d for all the crap I gave them about it.

Thank you. :)

It's not like it's a huge source of burning animosity or whatever, though. I mean, you're entitled to your opinion whether I agree with it or not. ;) It was a little annoying when we were sharing living space, but we're not any more, so it's all academic anyway.

Nevertheless, I really do appreciate it. "I was wrong" is a very brave and cool thing to say.

[mamajoan.livejournal.com]

Tim and his wife owned that cleaning business

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. That also makes a difference, if only in the degree of respect that I can feel for him. Although it's hard not to respect someone with his energy and talent anyway. :)

It's not like it's a huge source of burning animosity or whatever, though.

No, I know, but it's been a source of burning self-doubt for me, so I've spent a lot of time introspecting about it. All the more so lately, as late pregnancy has forced me to get a lot more comfortable with the whole accepting one's limitations thing. And if I do end up hiring someone to clean my place, I want to know that I'll be able to present it to my kid in a reasonable way that won't make me feel any liberal guilt. ;)

[sydb42.livejournal.com]

I used to have the thought that if I couldn't clean my place myself, I was just lazy and it was something I needed to do. Then, I met my husband who read me a short story from a local author's book (she had come to do a talk at his school in high school and he still had the signed book from that). Anyway, the story was called "Woman Without A Broom". It talked about her argument with the remodelers for her kitchen getting upset at her because she wasn't going to have a closet put in that was tall enough to hold a broom. She explained to them that she didn't have a broom and that her major goal had been to make enough money so that she can hire someone else to clean her house. And, that's what she does.

So, after reading that, it became a goal of mine to make enough money to hire someone else to clean my house. ;) Sadly, my husband and I are not there yet, other than hiring a teenager from church to come over maybe once a month to help clean (at a dirt cheap price, no less). We still have to do most of the cleaning ourselves. ;) And, she's leaving for school in the fall, so we'll be back to doing it *all* by ourselves pretty soon. It was good while it lasted, though. :)